Comments on: Missional Morality – Balancing the Tension Between “Extreme Legalism” and “All-out License” http://www.pomotheo.com/2009/church-life/missional-morality-balancing-the-tension-between-extreme-legalism-and-all-out-license/ Join the emerging missional conversation from Canada. Mon, 21 Jun 2010 04:29:55 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Mick Porter http://www.pomotheo.com/2009/church-life/missional-morality-balancing-the-tension-between-extreme-legalism-and-all-out-license/comment-page-1/#comment-1437 Mick Porter Wed, 27 May 2009 12:55:47 +0000 http://www.pomotheo.com/?p=352#comment-1437 Hi, This tension is very interesting; we seem to move to "either/or" scenarios very quickly, and it certainly *can* mean that one kind of sin increases as another decreases. One problem is that we separate out moral-type sin from social-type sin. If you're interested, I've got a video that probes this a bit: http://unveiledface.blogspot.com/2009/05/jesus-christ-left-wing-or-right-wing.html It's part of a DVD series we made over here in Australia. In Him, Mick Hi,

This tension is very interesting; we seem to move to "either/or" scenarios very quickly, and it certainly *can* mean that one kind of sin increases as another decreases. One problem is that we separate out moral-type sin from social-type sin.

If you're interested, I've got a video that probes this a bit:
http://unveiledface.blogspot.com/2009/05/jesus-christ-left-wing-or-right-wing.html

It's part of a DVD series we made over here in Australia.

In Him,
Mick

]]> By: Pomo http://www.pomotheo.com/2009/church-life/missional-morality-balancing-the-tension-between-extreme-legalism-and-all-out-license/comment-page-1/#comment-1288 Pomo Thu, 02 Apr 2009 20:01:43 +0000 http://www.pomotheo.com/?p=352#comment-1288 Agreed. The missional church seeks to be a noticeably different community within the city. I have found none who only put on different pants to look cool/water down the gospel message. Only people who do that are ministries/outreach events of big box churches looking to do something 'different'. Agreed.

The missional church seeks to be a noticeably different community within the city. I have found none who only put on different pants to look cool/water down the gospel message.

Only people who do that are ministries/outreach events of big box churches looking to do something 'different'.

]]> By: Denise Charles http://www.pomotheo.com/2009/church-life/missional-morality-balancing-the-tension-between-extreme-legalism-and-all-out-license/comment-page-1/#comment-1285 Denise Charles Thu, 02 Apr 2009 06:25:09 +0000 http://www.pomotheo.com/?p=352#comment-1285 Thanks so much for your response. Of course I am not suggesting that we look our noses down at others by pointing out sin from a seeming position of superiority. The entire concept of being salt and light is that our world views and life styles are so distinctly different yet we are so motivated by love that the world must sit up and take notice. The church's role should never be one of condemnation. I believe wholeheartedly in building relationships with those who do not know Christ but I must be willing to be honest about what a life of righteousness means both in word and in deed and this is of course communicated from a heart of love. We both should know that love is no airy-fairy emotion based on mere talk, according to 1 Cor. 13, it is pure action. Thanks so much for your response. Of course I am not suggesting that we look our noses down at others by pointing out sin from a seeming position of superiority. The entire concept of being salt and light is that our world views and life styles are so distinctly different yet we are so motivated by love that the world must sit up and take notice. The church's role should never be one of condemnation. I believe wholeheartedly in building relationships with those who do not know Christ but I must be willing to be honest about what a life of righteousness means both in word and in deed and this is of course communicated from a heart of love. We both should know that love is no airy-fairy emotion based on mere talk, according to 1 Cor. 13, it is pure action.

]]> By: Pomo http://www.pomotheo.com/2009/church-life/missional-morality-balancing-the-tension-between-extreme-legalism-and-all-out-license/comment-page-1/#comment-1283 Pomo Wed, 01 Apr 2009 17:09:21 +0000 http://www.pomotheo.com/?p=352#comment-1283 Thanks for your thoughts. My sense is missional does not make light of sin but probably doesn't bring it at the forefront like old conservatism did. So rather than noting the degradation of humanity because of the awfulness of sin, missional tries to communicate the foundational message in a language people in a context can understand: they are disconnected from Jesus (because of their Fallen state). Prayer yes, scriptures yes, (albeit your careful study of scriptures will undoubtedly yield different conclusions so then we are left with 'who's right?). So missionality doesn't make a compromise around sin, but doing is better than talking. One church will condemn sin and in turn never go out and try to redeem creation. They are more big talk then action. I'd much rather a long journey with someone who does not know Jesus (let's face, everyone sins, so stop pointing out other people's sin as the object of your mission) than sitting in a church pew and thinking about pure everyone inside is. Thanks for your thoughts.

My sense is missional does not make light of sin but probably doesn't bring it at the forefront like old conservatism did. So rather than noting the degradation of humanity because of the awfulness of sin, missional tries to communicate the foundational message in a language people in a context can understand: they are disconnected from Jesus (because of their Fallen state).

Prayer yes, scriptures yes, (albeit your careful study of scriptures will undoubtedly yield different conclusions so then we are left with 'who's right?).

So missionality doesn't make a compromise around sin, but doing is better than talking. One church will condemn sin and in turn never go out and try to redeem creation. They are more big talk then action. I'd much rather a long journey with someone who does not know Jesus (let's face, everyone sins, so stop pointing out other people's sin as the object of your mission) than sitting in a church pew and thinking about pure everyone inside is.

]]> By: Denise Charles http://www.pomotheo.com/2009/church-life/missional-morality-balancing-the-tension-between-extreme-legalism-and-all-out-license/comment-page-1/#comment-1282 Denise Charles Wed, 01 Apr 2009 06:13:00 +0000 http://www.pomotheo.com/?p=352#comment-1282 While I do agree wholeheartedly with the premise of a missional paradigm, as with any movement we must be aware that too far east is most definitely west. While God is calling us into relationship with our communities and while we as the church have always been called to live the Gospel there must be no compromise with sin. If we take note of Jesus' encounters with people and if the missional paradigm proports to follow the path of Jesus then even as we embrace others we must do it as Jesus did. In all of Jesus' interactions with sinners His message was usually "neither do I condemn you, go and sin no more"; this was always clear. God does not expect us to grow comfortable with sin so that we can reach others; Jesus is clear on showing others what a life of righteousness is; He never tows the middle. At the end of the day, the goal of a missional way of life must not be to make people so comfortable with sin that coming to church is a breeze. The holiness of Christ challenged those with whom He came into contact to turn from sin, so even as He hung out with publicans and sinners it was never from a stance of participating in their falleness. This is not something to make light of; the walk of the cross is a walk of holiness and righteousness. Yes we did go extreme with the stance of legalism in expecting us all to look the same and sound the same once we were Christians; but the definition of Christian/church must not change. We are the ecclesia or called out ones, called to be salt and light. We can only be this if our lifestyle is different as a result of our own personal transformation by the power of Jesus Christ. At the same time we must rid ourselves of the "Christian club mentality" if we hope to reach the lost. I would hate to see the concept of missional become degenerated to a point where there seems to be a complete absence of standards and where people think that anything goes. Mind you, from my readings of Michael Frost and my watching of a number of videos I do not believe that this is the true definition of missional but ultimately as people get hooked on a new word and on a movement there is always the possibility of it being watered down and evolving into something that it was never meant to be. This is why it is necessary to keep the dialogue gong but to also lace it with prayer and a careful study of the scriptures. I do agree with your stance of a need for balance. For a continuation of this conversation also check out my blog at http://insideout2.wordpress.com. I am from Barbados in the Caribbean and my husband and I are Pastors who have recently planted a church with a missional and external focus. While I do agree wholeheartedly with the premise of a missional paradigm, as with any movement we must be aware that too far east is most definitely west. While God is calling us into relationship with our communities and while we as the church have always been called to live the Gospel there must be no compromise with sin. If we take note of Jesus' encounters with people and if the missional paradigm proports to follow the path of Jesus then even as we embrace others we must do it as Jesus did. In all of Jesus' interactions with sinners His message was usually "neither do I condemn you, go and sin no more"; this was always clear. God does not expect us to grow comfortable with sin so that we can reach others; Jesus is clear on showing others what a life of righteousness is; He never tows the middle. At the end of the day, the goal of a missional way of life must not be to make people so comfortable with sin that coming to church is a breeze. The holiness of Christ challenged those with whom He came into contact to turn from sin, so even as He hung out with publicans and sinners it was never from a stance of participating in their falleness. This is not something to make light of; the walk of the cross is a walk of holiness and righteousness. Yes we did go extreme with the stance of legalism in expecting us all to look the same and sound the same once we were Christians; but the definition of Christian/church must not change. We are the ecclesia or called out ones, called to be salt and light. We can only be this if our lifestyle is different as a result of our own personal transformation by the power of Jesus Christ. At the same time we must rid ourselves of the "Christian club mentality" if we hope to reach the lost. I would hate to see the concept of missional become degenerated to a point where there seems to be a complete absence of standards and where people think that anything goes. Mind you, from my readings of Michael Frost and my watching of a number of videos I do not believe that this is the true definition of missional but ultimately as people get hooked on a new word and on a movement there is always the possibility of it being watered down and evolving into something that it was never meant to be. This is why it is necessary to keep the dialogue gong but to also lace it with prayer and a careful study of the scriptures. I do agree with your stance of a need for balance.

For a continuation of this conversation also check out my blog at http://insideout2.wordpress.com. I am from Barbados in the Caribbean and my husband and I are Pastors who have recently planted a church with a missional and external focus.

]]> By: Pomo http://www.pomotheo.com/2009/church-life/missional-morality-balancing-the-tension-between-extreme-legalism-and-all-out-license/comment-page-1/#comment-1270 Pomo Fri, 27 Mar 2009 14:52:01 +0000 http://www.pomotheo.com/?p=352#comment-1270 Nice first post, hope for many more in the future. Nice first post, hope for many more in the future.

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